[GitHub] accumulo pull request #211: ACCUMULO-4480 - update user manual for 1.8

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[GitHub] accumulo pull request #211: ACCUMULO-4480 - update user manual for 1.8

ctubbsii
GitHub user mjwall opened a pull request:

    https://github.com/apache/accumulo/pull/211

    ACCUMULO-4480 - update user manual for 1.8

    @ctubbsii let me know what you think.  After this is approved and I merge it into 1.8, I'll merge it forward to master and then copy the generated html file in the accumulo-website repo.  

You can merge this pull request into a Git repository by running:

    $ git pull https://github.com/mjwall/accumulo ACCUMULO-4480-user-manual

Alternatively you can review and apply these changes as the patch at:

    https://github.com/apache/accumulo/pull/211.patch

To close this pull request, make a commit to your master/trunk branch
with (at least) the following in the commit message:

    This closes #211
   
----
commit eb1c269d2673ab17f828e4e16c599c4bb5d33956
Author: Michael Wall <[hidden email]>
Date:   2017-02-02T17:57:00Z

    ACCUMULO-4480 - update user manual for 1.8

----


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[GitHub] accumulo pull request #211: ACCUMULO-4480 - update user manual for 1.8

ctubbsii
Github user keith-turner commented on a diff in the pull request:

    https://github.com/apache/accumulo/pull/211#discussion_r99222803
 
    --- Diff: docs/src/main/asciidoc/chapters/administration.txt ---
    @@ -1182,17 +1182,19 @@ conditions that vary from the environments individually tested in the various
     components. For example, Accumulo's use of HDFS includes many short block
     reads, which differs from the more common full file read used in most
     map/reduce applications. We have found that certain versions of Accumulo and
    -Hadoop will include stability bugs that greatly affect overall stability. In
    -our testing, Accumulo 1.6.2, Hadoop 2.6.0, and Zookeeper 3.4.6 resulted in a
    -stable VM clusters that did not fail a month of testing, while Accumulo 1.6.1,
    -Hadoop 2.5.1, and Zookeeper 3.4.5 had a mean time between failure of less than
    -a week under heavy ingest and query load. We expect that results will vary with
    -other configurations, and you should choose your software versions with that in
    -mind.
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    +Hadoop will include stability bugs that greatly affect overall stability.
    +Release notes typically contain information about versions used in
    +release testing.
    +
    +The following table shows the Hadoop, Zookeeper and
    +Thrift versions defined in the dependency section of the POM for building the
    +artifacts.  
    +
    +|================================================
    +|Accumulo |Hadoop |Zookeeper |Thrift
    +|1.7            |2.2.0     |3.4.6          |0.9.1
    +|1.8            |2.6.4     |3.6.4          |0.9.3
    --- End diff --
   
    The zookeeper version seems suspicious.


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[GitHub] accumulo pull request #211: ACCUMULO-4480 - update user manual for 1.8

ctubbsii
In reply to this post by ctubbsii
Github user keith-turner commented on a diff in the pull request:

    https://github.com/apache/accumulo/pull/211#discussion_r99223967
 
    --- Diff: docs/src/main/asciidoc/chapters/administration.txt ---
    @@ -1182,17 +1182,19 @@ conditions that vary from the environments individually tested in the various
     components. For example, Accumulo's use of HDFS includes many short block
     reads, which differs from the more common full file read used in most
     map/reduce applications. We have found that certain versions of Accumulo and
    -Hadoop will include stability bugs that greatly affect overall stability. In
    -our testing, Accumulo 1.6.2, Hadoop 2.6.0, and Zookeeper 3.4.6 resulted in a
    -stable VM clusters that did not fail a month of testing, while Accumulo 1.6.1,
    -Hadoop 2.5.1, and Zookeeper 3.4.5 had a mean time between failure of less than
    -a week under heavy ingest and query load. We expect that results will vary with
    -other configurations, and you should choose your software versions with that in
    -mind.
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    +Hadoop will include stability bugs that greatly affect overall stability.
    --- End diff --
   
    nevermind I was looking at a fragment of the sentence because I was reading the diff incorrectly.


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[GitHub] accumulo pull request #211: ACCUMULO-4480 - update user manual for 1.8

ctubbsii
In reply to this post by ctubbsii
Github user mjwall commented on a diff in the pull request:

    https://github.com/apache/accumulo/pull/211#discussion_r99255076
 
    --- Diff: docs/src/main/asciidoc/chapters/administration.txt ---
    @@ -1182,17 +1182,19 @@ conditions that vary from the environments individually tested in the various
     components. For example, Accumulo's use of HDFS includes many short block
     reads, which differs from the more common full file read used in most
     map/reduce applications. We have found that certain versions of Accumulo and
    -Hadoop will include stability bugs that greatly affect overall stability. In
    -our testing, Accumulo 1.6.2, Hadoop 2.6.0, and Zookeeper 3.4.6 resulted in a
    -stable VM clusters that did not fail a month of testing, while Accumulo 1.6.1,
    -Hadoop 2.5.1, and Zookeeper 3.4.5 had a mean time between failure of less than
    -a week under heavy ingest and query load. We expect that results will vary with
    -other configurations, and you should choose your software versions with that in
    -mind.
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    +Hadoop will include stability bugs that greatly affect overall stability.
    +Release notes typically contain information about versions used in
    +release testing.
    +
    +The following table shows the Hadoop, Zookeeper and
    +Thrift versions defined in the dependency section of the POM for building the
    +artifacts.  
    +
    +|================================================
    +|Accumulo |Hadoop |Zookeeper |Thrift
    +|1.7            |2.2.0     |3.4.6          |0.9.1
    +|1.8            |2.6.4     |3.6.4          |0.9.3
    --- End diff --
   
    Yep, good catch


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[GitHub] accumulo pull request #211: ACCUMULO-4480 - update user manual for 1.8

ctubbsii
In reply to this post by ctubbsii
Github user mjwall commented on a diff in the pull request:

    https://github.com/apache/accumulo/pull/211#discussion_r99255181
 
    --- Diff: docs/src/main/asciidoc/chapters/administration.txt ---
    @@ -1182,17 +1182,19 @@ conditions that vary from the environments individually tested in the various
     components. For example, Accumulo's use of HDFS includes many short block
     reads, which differs from the more common full file read used in most
     map/reduce applications. We have found that certain versions of Accumulo and
    -Hadoop will include stability bugs that greatly affect overall stability. In
    -our testing, Accumulo 1.6.2, Hadoop 2.6.0, and Zookeeper 3.4.6 resulted in a
    -stable VM clusters that did not fail a month of testing, while Accumulo 1.6.1,
    -Hadoop 2.5.1, and Zookeeper 3.4.5 had a mean time between failure of less than
    -a week under heavy ingest and query load. We expect that results will vary with
    -other configurations, and you should choose your software versions with that in
    -mind.
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    +Hadoop will include stability bugs that greatly affect overall stability.
    +Release notes typically contain information about versions used in
    +release testing.
    +
    +The following table shows the Hadoop, Zookeeper and
    +Thrift versions defined in the dependency section of the POM for building the
    +artifacts.  
    +
    +|================================================
    +|Accumulo |Hadoop |Zookeeper |Thrift
    +|1.7            |2.2.0     |3.4.6          |0.9.1
    +|1.8            |2.6.4     |3.6.4          |0.9.3
    +|================================================
    +
    +Using versions earlier than these for the specified Accumulo version
    +is not recommended.
    --- End diff --
   
    Agreed but I couldn't come up with a better statement without getting wordy and making it not future proof.


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[GitHub] accumulo pull request #211: ACCUMULO-4480 - update user manual for 1.8

ctubbsii
In reply to this post by ctubbsii
Github user ctubbsii commented on a diff in the pull request:

    https://github.com/apache/accumulo/pull/211#discussion_r99274946
 
    --- Diff: docs/src/main/asciidoc/chapters/administration.txt ---
    @@ -1182,17 +1182,19 @@ conditions that vary from the environments individually tested in the various
     components. For example, Accumulo's use of HDFS includes many short block
     reads, which differs from the more common full file read used in most
     map/reduce applications. We have found that certain versions of Accumulo and
    -Hadoop will include stability bugs that greatly affect overall stability. In
    -our testing, Accumulo 1.6.2, Hadoop 2.6.0, and Zookeeper 3.4.6 resulted in a
    -stable VM clusters that did not fail a month of testing, while Accumulo 1.6.1,
    -Hadoop 2.5.1, and Zookeeper 3.4.5 had a mean time between failure of less than
    -a week under heavy ingest and query load. We expect that results will vary with
    -other configurations, and you should choose your software versions with that in
    -mind.
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    +Hadoop will include stability bugs that greatly affect overall stability.
    --- End diff --
   
    It might be worded better as "...may include bugs that..."


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[GitHub] accumulo pull request #211: ACCUMULO-4480 - update user manual for 1.8

ctubbsii
In reply to this post by ctubbsii
Github user ctubbsii commented on a diff in the pull request:

    https://github.com/apache/accumulo/pull/211#discussion_r99275275
 
    --- Diff: docs/src/main/asciidoc/chapters/administration.txt ---
    @@ -1182,17 +1182,19 @@ conditions that vary from the environments individually tested in the various
     components. For example, Accumulo's use of HDFS includes many short block
     reads, which differs from the more common full file read used in most
     map/reduce applications. We have found that certain versions of Accumulo and
    -Hadoop will include stability bugs that greatly affect overall stability. In
    -our testing, Accumulo 1.6.2, Hadoop 2.6.0, and Zookeeper 3.4.6 resulted in a
    -stable VM clusters that did not fail a month of testing, while Accumulo 1.6.1,
    -Hadoop 2.5.1, and Zookeeper 3.4.5 had a mean time between failure of less than
    -a week under heavy ingest and query load. We expect that results will vary with
    -other configurations, and you should choose your software versions with that in
    -mind.
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    +Hadoop will include stability bugs that greatly affect overall stability.
    +Release notes typically contain information about versions used in
    +release testing.
    +
    +The following table shows the Hadoop, Zookeeper and
    +Thrift versions defined in the dependency section of the POM for building the
    +artifacts.  
    +
    +|================================================
    +|Accumulo |Hadoop |Zookeeper |Thrift
    +|1.7            |2.2.0     |3.4.6          |0.9.1
    +|1.8            |2.6.4     |3.6.4          |0.9.3
    +|================================================
    +
    +Using versions earlier than these for the specified Accumulo version
    +is not recommended.
    --- End diff --
   
    If we want to be future-proof, I'm really not sure we should be recommending or not recommending any particular version. We can describe which versions we've built and tested with, but that's about it. Figuring out which range of versions which work is a dependency convergence and/or downstream integration testing issue.


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[GitHub] accumulo pull request #211: ACCUMULO-4480 - update user manual for 1.8

ctubbsii
In reply to this post by ctubbsii
Github user ctubbsii commented on a diff in the pull request:

    https://github.com/apache/accumulo/pull/211#discussion_r99275570
 
    --- Diff: docs/src/main/asciidoc/chapters/administration.txt ---
    @@ -1182,17 +1182,19 @@ conditions that vary from the environments individually tested in the various
     components. For example, Accumulo's use of HDFS includes many short block
     reads, which differs from the more common full file read used in most
     map/reduce applications. We have found that certain versions of Accumulo and
    -Hadoop will include stability bugs that greatly affect overall stability. In
    -our testing, Accumulo 1.6.2, Hadoop 2.6.0, and Zookeeper 3.4.6 resulted in a
    -stable VM clusters that did not fail a month of testing, while Accumulo 1.6.1,
    -Hadoop 2.5.1, and Zookeeper 3.4.5 had a mean time between failure of less than
    -a week under heavy ingest and query load. We expect that results will vary with
    -other configurations, and you should choose your software versions with that in
    -mind.
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    +Hadoop will include stability bugs that greatly affect overall stability.
    +Release notes typically contain information about versions used in
    +release testing.
    +
    +The following table shows the Hadoop, Zookeeper and
    +Thrift versions defined in the dependency section of the POM for building the
    +artifacts.  
    +
    +|================================================
    +|Accumulo |Hadoop |Zookeeper |Thrift
    +|1.7            |2.2.0     |3.4.6          |0.9.1
    +|1.8            |2.6.4     |3.4.6          |0.9.3
    +|================================================
    +
    --- End diff --
   
    I'm not sure we need this section in the user manual. It's also possible we'll change the version in a bugfix release, and this table isn't sufficiently granular (nor do I wish to update it on every release). Wouldn't it suffice to point the user to the dependency management section of the POM, rather than copy the information here?


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[GitHub] accumulo pull request #211: ACCUMULO-4480 - update user manual for 1.8

ctubbsii
In reply to this post by ctubbsii
Github user keith-turner commented on a diff in the pull request:

    https://github.com/apache/accumulo/pull/211#discussion_r99355971
 
    --- Diff: docs/src/main/asciidoc/chapters/administration.txt ---
    @@ -1182,17 +1182,19 @@ conditions that vary from the environments individually tested in the various
     components. For example, Accumulo's use of HDFS includes many short block
     reads, which differs from the more common full file read used in most
     map/reduce applications. We have found that certain versions of Accumulo and
    -Hadoop will include stability bugs that greatly affect overall stability. In
    -our testing, Accumulo 1.6.2, Hadoop 2.6.0, and Zookeeper 3.4.6 resulted in a
    -stable VM clusters that did not fail a month of testing, while Accumulo 1.6.1,
    -Hadoop 2.5.1, and Zookeeper 3.4.5 had a mean time between failure of less than
    -a week under heavy ingest and query load. We expect that results will vary with
    -other configurations, and you should choose your software versions with that in
    -mind.
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    +Hadoop will include stability bugs that greatly affect overall stability.
    +Release notes typically contain information about versions used in
    +release testing.
    +
    +The following table shows the Hadoop, Zookeeper and
    +Thrift versions defined in the dependency section of the POM for building the
    +artifacts.  
    +
    +|================================================
    +|Accumulo |Hadoop |Zookeeper |Thrift
    +|1.7            |2.2.0     |3.4.6          |0.9.1
    +|1.8            |2.6.4     |3.4.6          |0.9.3
    +|================================================
    +
    --- End diff --
   
    What values does this information provide to a user?


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[GitHub] accumulo pull request #211: ACCUMULO-4480 - update user manual for 1.8

ctubbsii
In reply to this post by ctubbsii
Github user joshelser commented on a diff in the pull request:

    https://github.com/apache/accumulo/pull/211#discussion_r99477035
 
    --- Diff: docs/src/main/asciidoc/chapters/administration.txt ---
    @@ -1182,17 +1182,19 @@ conditions that vary from the environments individually tested in the various
     components. For example, Accumulo's use of HDFS includes many short block
     reads, which differs from the more common full file read used in most
     map/reduce applications. We have found that certain versions of Accumulo and
    -Hadoop will include stability bugs that greatly affect overall stability. In
    -our testing, Accumulo 1.6.2, Hadoop 2.6.0, and Zookeeper 3.4.6 resulted in a
    -stable VM clusters that did not fail a month of testing, while Accumulo 1.6.1,
    -Hadoop 2.5.1, and Zookeeper 3.4.5 had a mean time between failure of less than
    -a week under heavy ingest and query load. We expect that results will vary with
    -other configurations, and you should choose your software versions with that in
    -mind.
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    +Hadoop will include stability bugs that greatly affect overall stability.
    +Release notes typically contain information about versions used in
    +release testing.
    +
    +The following table shows the Hadoop, Zookeeper and
    +Thrift versions defined in the dependency section of the POM for building the
    +artifacts.  
    +
    +|================================================
    +|Accumulo |Hadoop |Zookeeper |Thrift
    +|1.7            |2.2.0     |3.4.6          |0.9.1
    +|1.8            |2.6.4     |3.4.6          |0.9.3
    +|================================================
    +
    --- End diff --
   
    In my experience, most users who are not using some vendor's packaging, find this kind of information very helpful. Generally, users/admins have no clue where to even look to gauge what is "compatible" (to earlier or later versions of dependencies).
   
    That said, fewer and fewer people seem to be taking on this task and prefer to just rely on some external entity to tell them what is "compatible". Perhaps we could simplify this table to say something like "there are no known compatibility issues since Hadoop-2.2.x and ZooKeeper-3.4.x"? This would lead naturally into documenting the incompatibilities if/when they crop up again.


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[GitHub] accumulo pull request #211: ACCUMULO-4480 - update user manual for 1.8

ctubbsii
In reply to this post by ctubbsii
Github user ctubbsii commented on a diff in the pull request:

    https://github.com/apache/accumulo/pull/211#discussion_r99479024
 
    --- Diff: docs/src/main/asciidoc/chapters/administration.txt ---
    @@ -1182,17 +1182,19 @@ conditions that vary from the environments individually tested in the various
     components. For example, Accumulo's use of HDFS includes many short block
     reads, which differs from the more common full file read used in most
     map/reduce applications. We have found that certain versions of Accumulo and
    -Hadoop will include stability bugs that greatly affect overall stability. In
    -our testing, Accumulo 1.6.2, Hadoop 2.6.0, and Zookeeper 3.4.6 resulted in a
    -stable VM clusters that did not fail a month of testing, while Accumulo 1.6.1,
    -Hadoop 2.5.1, and Zookeeper 3.4.5 had a mean time between failure of less than
    -a week under heavy ingest and query load. We expect that results will vary with
    -other configurations, and you should choose your software versions with that in
    -mind.
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    +Hadoop will include stability bugs that greatly affect overall stability.
    +Release notes typically contain information about versions used in
    +release testing.
    +
    +The following table shows the Hadoop, Zookeeper and
    +Thrift versions defined in the dependency section of the POM for building the
    +artifacts.  
    +
    +|================================================
    +|Accumulo |Hadoop |Zookeeper |Thrift
    +|1.7            |2.2.0     |3.4.6          |0.9.1
    +|1.8            |2.6.4     |3.4.6          |0.9.3
    +|================================================
    +
    --- End diff --
   
    I agree it's useful. I just don't think the user manual is the appropriate place for it and think the release notes are better, since they are tied to the characteristics of a specific release, and are far less likely to be stale.
   
    This information is most useful to people building, integrating, and packaging Accumulo, and the information in the user manual should still apply to their builds (without modification) as it does to the ones we've tested. If this is contained in the user manual, then they'll have to modify the user manual if they want it to be accurate for their environment.
   
    For example... for the Fedora packaging, any references in the user manual to any version of our dependencies which aren't the versions packaged in Fedora, simply wouldn't apply.


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[GitHub] accumulo pull request #211: ACCUMULO-4480 - update user manual for 1.8

ctubbsii
In reply to this post by ctubbsii
Github user joshelser commented on a diff in the pull request:

    https://github.com/apache/accumulo/pull/211#discussion_r99496915
 
    --- Diff: docs/src/main/asciidoc/chapters/administration.txt ---
    @@ -1182,17 +1182,19 @@ conditions that vary from the environments individually tested in the various
     components. For example, Accumulo's use of HDFS includes many short block
     reads, which differs from the more common full file read used in most
     map/reduce applications. We have found that certain versions of Accumulo and
    -Hadoop will include stability bugs that greatly affect overall stability. In
    -our testing, Accumulo 1.6.2, Hadoop 2.6.0, and Zookeeper 3.4.6 resulted in a
    -stable VM clusters that did not fail a month of testing, while Accumulo 1.6.1,
    -Hadoop 2.5.1, and Zookeeper 3.4.5 had a mean time between failure of less than
    -a week under heavy ingest and query load. We expect that results will vary with
    -other configurations, and you should choose your software versions with that in
    -mind.
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    +Hadoop will include stability bugs that greatly affect overall stability.
    +Release notes typically contain information about versions used in
    +release testing.
    +
    +The following table shows the Hadoop, Zookeeper and
    +Thrift versions defined in the dependency section of the POM for building the
    +artifacts.  
    +
    +|================================================
    +|Accumulo |Hadoop |Zookeeper |Thrift
    +|1.7            |2.2.0     |3.4.6          |0.9.1
    +|1.8            |2.6.4     |3.4.6          |0.9.3
    +|================================================
    +
    --- End diff --
   
    > I just don't think the user manual is the appropriate place for it and think the release notes are better
   
    I don't think it's particularly onerous to keep a simple table of "general compatibility" in the user manual. I think a fair number of people would check there first.
   
    > since they are tied to the characteristics of a specific release, and are far less likely to be stale.
   
    I was basing my suggestion on the simplification of the table. Given that we're good about not breaking compatibility across versions, I would think the user manual would only have to be update on new major/minor versions.


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[GitHub] accumulo pull request #211: ACCUMULO-4480 - update user manual for 1.8

ctubbsii
In reply to this post by ctubbsii
Github user ctubbsii commented on a diff in the pull request:

    https://github.com/apache/accumulo/pull/211#discussion_r99498747
 
    --- Diff: docs/src/main/asciidoc/chapters/administration.txt ---
    @@ -1182,17 +1182,19 @@ conditions that vary from the environments individually tested in the various
     components. For example, Accumulo's use of HDFS includes many short block
     reads, which differs from the more common full file read used in most
     map/reduce applications. We have found that certain versions of Accumulo and
    -Hadoop will include stability bugs that greatly affect overall stability. In
    -our testing, Accumulo 1.6.2, Hadoop 2.6.0, and Zookeeper 3.4.6 resulted in a
    -stable VM clusters that did not fail a month of testing, while Accumulo 1.6.1,
    -Hadoop 2.5.1, and Zookeeper 3.4.5 had a mean time between failure of less than
    -a week under heavy ingest and query load. We expect that results will vary with
    -other configurations, and you should choose your software versions with that in
    -mind.
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    +Hadoop will include stability bugs that greatly affect overall stability.
    +Release notes typically contain information about versions used in
    +release testing.
    +
    +The following table shows the Hadoop, Zookeeper and
    +Thrift versions defined in the dependency section of the POM for building the
    +artifacts.  
    +
    +|================================================
    +|Accumulo |Hadoop |Zookeeper |Thrift
    +|1.7            |2.2.0     |3.4.6          |0.9.1
    +|1.8            |2.6.4     |3.4.6          |0.9.3
    +|================================================
    +
    --- End diff --
   
    The concern isn't that it's onerous. It's that it's likely to become stale, or incorrect, due to lack of maintenance, and that it can't be updated for a previous release, when the release notes can be.
   
    If the suggestion is based on a simplification of the table, I'd be interested to know what that simplified version would look like.
   
    As for preferring the user manual over the release notes, what exactly is the argument here? Just that some people might check there first? Because I'm pretty sure most people check the downloads page first, and with the way we're starting to use Jekyll feeds to publish releases, it really feels like the release notes are going to be the first things most users see. It's also the only place seasoned users are going to look... because the user manual typically doesn't get re-read by users who already know how to use it.
   
    Even if some people check the user manual first... they can be easily directed to the release notes on the website, with a single sentence that won't get stale. That would still allow all the other benefits of having the info on the release notes (ability to correct/update post-release, ability to get patch-release granularity instead of just major/minor, etc.)


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[GitHub] accumulo pull request #211: ACCUMULO-4480 - update user manual for 1.8

ctubbsii
In reply to this post by ctubbsii
Github user joshelser commented on a diff in the pull request:

    https://github.com/apache/accumulo/pull/211#discussion_r99515568
 
    --- Diff: docs/src/main/asciidoc/chapters/administration.txt ---
    @@ -1182,17 +1182,19 @@ conditions that vary from the environments individually tested in the various
     components. For example, Accumulo's use of HDFS includes many short block
     reads, which differs from the more common full file read used in most
     map/reduce applications. We have found that certain versions of Accumulo and
    -Hadoop will include stability bugs that greatly affect overall stability. In
    -our testing, Accumulo 1.6.2, Hadoop 2.6.0, and Zookeeper 3.4.6 resulted in a
    -stable VM clusters that did not fail a month of testing, while Accumulo 1.6.1,
    -Hadoop 2.5.1, and Zookeeper 3.4.5 had a mean time between failure of less than
    -a week under heavy ingest and query load. We expect that results will vary with
    -other configurations, and you should choose your software versions with that in
    -mind.
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    +Hadoop will include stability bugs that greatly affect overall stability.
    +Release notes typically contain information about versions used in
    +release testing.
    +
    +The following table shows the Hadoop, Zookeeper and
    +Thrift versions defined in the dependency section of the POM for building the
    +artifacts.  
    +
    +|================================================
    +|Accumulo |Hadoop |Zookeeper |Thrift
    +|1.7            |2.2.0     |3.4.6          |0.9.1
    +|1.8            |2.6.4     |3.4.6          |0.9.3
    +|================================================
    +
    --- End diff --
   
    >If the suggestion is based on a simplification of the table, I'd be interested to know what that simplified version would look like.
   
    |Accumulo|Hadoop|ZK|Thrift|
    |1.7|2.2.0-2.x|3.4.x|0.9.1|
    |1.8|2.2.0-2.x|3.4.x|0.9.3|
   
    > As for preferring the user manual over the release notes, what exactly is the argument here? Just that some people might check there first
   
    A link to release notes from the user manual is also fine, but that inherently breaks the standalone pdf docs (are we still doing that?).
   
    > Because I'm pretty sure most people check the downloads page first
   
    I disagree. Most people check the *documentation* first when they're looking for docs ;). Most people I've met and worked with would not think to look at release notes.


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[GitHub] accumulo pull request #211: ACCUMULO-4480 - update user manual for 1.8

ctubbsii
In reply to this post by ctubbsii
Github user ctubbsii commented on a diff in the pull request:

    https://github.com/apache/accumulo/pull/211#discussion_r99579512
 
    --- Diff: docs/src/main/asciidoc/chapters/administration.txt ---
    @@ -1182,17 +1182,19 @@ conditions that vary from the environments individually tested in the various
     components. For example, Accumulo's use of HDFS includes many short block
     reads, which differs from the more common full file read used in most
     map/reduce applications. We have found that certain versions of Accumulo and
    -Hadoop will include stability bugs that greatly affect overall stability. In
    -our testing, Accumulo 1.6.2, Hadoop 2.6.0, and Zookeeper 3.4.6 resulted in a
    -stable VM clusters that did not fail a month of testing, while Accumulo 1.6.1,
    -Hadoop 2.5.1, and Zookeeper 3.4.5 had a mean time between failure of less than
    -a week under heavy ingest and query load. We expect that results will vary with
    -other configurations, and you should choose your software versions with that in
    -mind.
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    +Hadoop will include stability bugs that greatly affect overall stability.
    +Release notes typically contain information about versions used in
    +release testing.
    +
    +The following table shows the Hadoop, Zookeeper and
    +Thrift versions defined in the dependency section of the POM for building the
    +artifacts.  
    +
    +|================================================
    +|Accumulo |Hadoop |Zookeeper |Thrift
    +|1.7            |2.2.0     |3.4.6          |0.9.1
    +|1.8            |2.6.4     |3.4.6          |0.9.3
    +|================================================
    +
    --- End diff --
   
    This simplified table example highlights what I mean about getting stale, with its use of ".x" as a wildcard version. Our dependencies do not follow semver, and we have no idea if the pattern will hold.
   
    > A link to release notes from the user manual is also fine, but that inherently breaks the standalone pdf docs (are we still doing that?).
   
    We publish a standalone user manual, but it's not a PDF. It's a self-contained HTML file. Not sure I understand what you mean by "breaks". A written "redirect" to the website for the most up-to-date information won't break anything.
   
    > I disagree. Most people check the documentation first when they're looking for docs ;). Most people I've met and worked with would not think to look at release notes.
   
    Release notes are docs, too. In any case, we can try to figure out where users are facing, and place stuff into their line of sight... or we can put things where they make the most sense, and tell the users to turn their head to face where we've placed it. I prefer the latter.


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[GitHub] accumulo pull request #211: ACCUMULO-4480 - update user manual for 1.8

ctubbsii
In reply to this post by ctubbsii
Github user keith-turner commented on a diff in the pull request:

    https://github.com/apache/accumulo/pull/211#discussion_r99636857
 
    --- Diff: docs/src/main/asciidoc/chapters/administration.txt ---
    @@ -1182,17 +1182,19 @@ conditions that vary from the environments individually tested in the various
     components. For example, Accumulo's use of HDFS includes many short block
     reads, which differs from the more common full file read used in most
     map/reduce applications. We have found that certain versions of Accumulo and
    -Hadoop will include stability bugs that greatly affect overall stability. In
    -our testing, Accumulo 1.6.2, Hadoop 2.6.0, and Zookeeper 3.4.6 resulted in a
    -stable VM clusters that did not fail a month of testing, while Accumulo 1.6.1,
    -Hadoop 2.5.1, and Zookeeper 3.4.5 had a mean time between failure of less than
    -a week under heavy ingest and query load. We expect that results will vary with
    -other configurations, and you should choose your software versions with that in
    -mind.
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    +Hadoop will include stability bugs that greatly affect overall stability.
    +Release notes typically contain information about versions used in
    +release testing.
    +
    +The following table shows the Hadoop, Zookeeper and
    +Thrift versions defined in the dependency section of the POM for building the
    +artifacts.  
    +
    +|================================================
    +|Accumulo |Hadoop |Zookeeper |Thrift
    +|1.7            |2.2.0     |3.4.6          |0.9.1
    +|1.8            |2.6.4     |3.4.6          |0.9.3
    +|================================================
    +
    --- End diff --
   
    I would vote for something in the User manual that guides users to the release notes for dependency information
   
    I would also be concerned about links breaking.  One plus is that we can at least check links with tools.   Even if we do not have a link, we could still have a sentence like the following to help guides users to the correct information.  
   
    ```
    Check the X.Y.0 release notes for the version of Accumulo you are using to find information about Accumulo dependencies.
    ```


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[GitHub] accumulo pull request #211: ACCUMULO-4480 - update user manual for 1.8

ctubbsii
In reply to this post by ctubbsii
Github user keith-turner commented on a diff in the pull request:

    https://github.com/apache/accumulo/pull/211#discussion_r99644892
 
    --- Diff: docs/src/main/asciidoc/chapters/administration.txt ---
    @@ -1182,17 +1182,19 @@ conditions that vary from the environments individually tested in the various
     components. For example, Accumulo's use of HDFS includes many short block
     reads, which differs from the more common full file read used in most
     map/reduce applications. We have found that certain versions of Accumulo and
    -Hadoop will include stability bugs that greatly affect overall stability. In
    -our testing, Accumulo 1.6.2, Hadoop 2.6.0, and Zookeeper 3.4.6 resulted in a
    -stable VM clusters that did not fail a month of testing, while Accumulo 1.6.1,
    -Hadoop 2.5.1, and Zookeeper 3.4.5 had a mean time between failure of less than
    -a week under heavy ingest and query load. We expect that results will vary with
    -other configurations, and you should choose your software versions with that in
    -mind.
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    +Hadoop will include stability bugs that greatly affect overall stability.
    +Release notes typically contain information about versions used in
    +release testing.
    +
    +The following table shows the Hadoop, Zookeeper and
    +Thrift versions defined in the dependency section of the POM for building the
    +artifacts.  
    +
    +|================================================
    +|Accumulo |Hadoop |Zookeeper |Thrift
    +|1.7            |2.2.0     |3.4.6          |0.9.1
    +|1.8            |2.6.4     |3.4.6          |0.9.3
    +|================================================
    +
    --- End diff --
   
    > edit: specifically calling out the version of Thrift being used is going to be important.
   
    I think a general warning about making sure to get the version of thrift correct would be very useful.


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[GitHub] accumulo pull request #211: ACCUMULO-4480 - update user manual for 1.8

ctubbsii
In reply to this post by ctubbsii
Github user keith-turner commented on a diff in the pull request:

    https://github.com/apache/accumulo/pull/211#discussion_r99645448
 
    --- Diff: docs/src/main/asciidoc/chapters/administration.txt ---
    @@ -1182,17 +1182,19 @@ conditions that vary from the environments individually tested in the various
     components. For example, Accumulo's use of HDFS includes many short block
     reads, which differs from the more common full file read used in most
     map/reduce applications. We have found that certain versions of Accumulo and
    -Hadoop will include stability bugs that greatly affect overall stability. In
    -our testing, Accumulo 1.6.2, Hadoop 2.6.0, and Zookeeper 3.4.6 resulted in a
    -stable VM clusters that did not fail a month of testing, while Accumulo 1.6.1,
    -Hadoop 2.5.1, and Zookeeper 3.4.5 had a mean time between failure of less than
    -a week under heavy ingest and query load. We expect that results will vary with
    -other configurations, and you should choose your software versions with that in
    -mind.
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    +Hadoop will include stability bugs that greatly affect overall stability.
    +Release notes typically contain information about versions used in
    +release testing.
    +
    +The following table shows the Hadoop, Zookeeper and
    +Thrift versions defined in the dependency section of the POM for building the
    +artifacts.  
    +
    +|================================================
    +|Accumulo |Hadoop |Zookeeper |Thrift
    +|1.7            |2.2.0     |3.4.6          |0.9.1
    +|1.8            |2.6.4     |3.4.6          |0.9.3
    +|================================================
    +
    --- End diff --
   
    We could leave the table in the user manual and add the following sentences about the following.
     * Information may be out of date, check release notes
     * Its very important to get the version of thrift correct.


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[GitHub] accumulo pull request #211: ACCUMULO-4480 - update user manual for 1.8

ctubbsii
In reply to this post by ctubbsii
Github user joshelser commented on a diff in the pull request:

    https://github.com/apache/accumulo/pull/211#discussion_r99647838
 
    --- Diff: docs/src/main/asciidoc/chapters/administration.txt ---
    @@ -1182,17 +1182,19 @@ conditions that vary from the environments individually tested in the various
     components. For example, Accumulo's use of HDFS includes many short block
     reads, which differs from the more common full file read used in most
     map/reduce applications. We have found that certain versions of Accumulo and
    -Hadoop will include stability bugs that greatly affect overall stability. In
    -our testing, Accumulo 1.6.2, Hadoop 2.6.0, and Zookeeper 3.4.6 resulted in a
    -stable VM clusters that did not fail a month of testing, while Accumulo 1.6.1,
    -Hadoop 2.5.1, and Zookeeper 3.4.5 had a mean time between failure of less than
    -a week under heavy ingest and query load. We expect that results will vary with
    -other configurations, and you should choose your software versions with that in
    -mind.
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    +Hadoop will include stability bugs that greatly affect overall stability.
    +Release notes typically contain information about versions used in
    +release testing.
    +
    +The following table shows the Hadoop, Zookeeper and
    +Thrift versions defined in the dependency section of the POM for building the
    +artifacts.  
    +
    +|================================================
    +|Accumulo |Hadoop |Zookeeper |Thrift
    +|1.7            |2.2.0     |3.4.6          |0.9.1
    +|1.8            |2.6.4     |3.4.6          |0.9.3
    +|================================================
    +
    --- End diff --
   
    > We could leave the table in the user manual and add the following sentences.
   
    If we're adding clarifications, I would also suggest adding a note about what the "version specified in the pom" actually means. I'm positive that normal users don't understand all of the implications. What about a third point..
   
    "The versions set in the pom for Hadoop and ZooKeeper are treated as stable releases which provide a large-breadth of compatibility across other versions of those components. They do not guarantee compatibility with any other versions because Hadoop and ZooKeeper do not provide any such guarantee."


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[GitHub] accumulo pull request #211: ACCUMULO-4480 - update user manual for 1.8

ctubbsii
In reply to this post by ctubbsii
Github user ctubbsii commented on a diff in the pull request:

    https://github.com/apache/accumulo/pull/211#discussion_r99682663
 
    --- Diff: docs/src/main/asciidoc/chapters/administration.txt ---
    @@ -1182,17 +1182,19 @@ conditions that vary from the environments individually tested in the various
     components. For example, Accumulo's use of HDFS includes many short block
     reads, which differs from the more common full file read used in most
     map/reduce applications. We have found that certain versions of Accumulo and
    -Hadoop will include stability bugs that greatly affect overall stability. In
    -our testing, Accumulo 1.6.2, Hadoop 2.6.0, and Zookeeper 3.4.6 resulted in a
    -stable VM clusters that did not fail a month of testing, while Accumulo 1.6.1,
    -Hadoop 2.5.1, and Zookeeper 3.4.5 had a mean time between failure of less than
    -a week under heavy ingest and query load. We expect that results will vary with
    -other configurations, and you should choose your software versions with that in
    -mind.
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    +Hadoop will include stability bugs that greatly affect overall stability.
    +Release notes typically contain information about versions used in
    +release testing.
    +
    +The following table shows the Hadoop, Zookeeper and
    +Thrift versions defined in the dependency section of the POM for building the
    +artifacts.  
    +
    +|================================================
    +|Accumulo |Hadoop |Zookeeper |Thrift
    +|1.7            |2.2.0     |3.4.6          |0.9.1
    +|1.8            |2.6.4     |3.4.6          |0.9.3
    +|================================================
    +
    --- End diff --
   
    How about?
   
    "Accumulo has been built and tested with specific dependency versions. Please check the release notes at https://accumulo.apache.org for the version of Accumulo you're using, for any known compatibility issues."


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