Remove Google Analytics from project website

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Remove Google Analytics from project website

Mike Walch-2
I created a pull request to remove Google Analytics tracking from the
project website (https://accumulo.apache.org):

https://github.com/apache/accumulo-website/pull/128

If you think Google Analytics should remain, please reply to this email or
comment on the pull request.
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Re: Remove Google Analytics from project website

Christopher Tubbs-2
I think we should remove it. Given greater user concern over privacy
lately (with things like GDPR), and the fact that it we don't really
*need* the info (does anybody check the reports regularly?), I'd
prefer to just remove it. Infra was also discussing this:
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/1604a4cb92120eb5daab35aeaa9dda9aee461f8f644ab58ff0bc891a@%3Cusers.infra.apache.org%3E
and there seemed to be some wider community consensus in that thread
that we probably just shouldn't do it.
On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 3:25 PM Mike Walch <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I created a pull request to remove Google Analytics tracking from the
> project website (https://accumulo.apache.org):
>
> https://github.com/apache/accumulo-website/pull/128
>
> If you think Google Analytics should remain, please reply to this email or
> comment on the pull request.
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Re: Remove Google Analytics from project website

Sean Busbey-6
IIRC google analytics was one of the few ways Josh and I were able to look at the size of the "lurker population" for the project back when we tried to get a grasp on how the community was doing back in 2014.

What will we do as an alternative for checking interest in the project expressed as website visits? When one of us wants to redesign or optimize parts of the website how will we know what works and what doesn't?

I think GDPR is also a good reason to keep the existing analytics install. Any alternative we come up with will have to comply and I'm pretty sure the Google Analytics team is in a better position to do that then the Accumulo community is.

On 2018/11/02 20:54:59, Christopher <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I think we should remove it. Given greater user concern over privacy
> lately (with things like GDPR), and the fact that it we don't really
> *need* the info (does anybody check the reports regularly?), I'd
> prefer to just remove it. Infra was also discussing this:
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/1604a4cb92120eb5daab35aeaa9dda9aee461f8f644ab58ff0bc891a@%3Cusers.infra.apache.org%3E
> and there seemed to be some wider community consensus in that thread
> that we probably just shouldn't do it.
> On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 3:25 PM Mike Walch <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > I created a pull request to remove Google Analytics tracking from the
> > project website (https://accumulo.apache.org):
> >
> > https://github.com/apache/accumulo-website/pull/128
> >
> > If you think Google Analytics should remain, please reply to this email or
> > comment on the pull request.
>
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Re: Remove Google Analytics from project website

Christopher Tubbs-2
On Mon, Nov 5, 2018 at 9:48 AM Sean Busbey <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> IIRC google analytics was one of the few ways Josh and I were able to look at the size of the "lurker population" for the project back when we tried to get a grasp on how the community was doing back in 2014.

We don't need an answer to every interesting question that we can
think to ask, especially when getting the answer comes with elevated
concerns over user privacy and tracking. Having some insight into the
"lurker population", for me, is not a compelling reason to track our
users' website activity, and certainly not with a third party.

>
> What will we do as an alternative for checking interest in the project expressed as website visits? When one of us wants to redesign or optimize parts of the website how will we know what works and what doesn't?

From what I've seen, we've never had enough traffic to use the
information that way anyway, and none of our site edits have ever been
motivated by that, to my knowledge.

Further, before we switched to the gtag.js script instead of the
analytics.js script for GA, it had stopped working entirely, and
nobody even noticed... possibly for months. I can't see why we'd want
to insist on tracking user activity when we're not even using the
data... to the point where we don't even notice if the data doesn't
come.

>
> I think GDPR is also a good reason to keep the existing analytics install. Any alternative we come up with will have to comply and I'm pretty sure the Google Analytics team is in a better position to do that then the Accumulo community is.
>

I don't think we need any alternative. INFRA may be able to provide
log information from Apache's web servers, but personally, I just
don't think we need to do any tracking at all. It doesn't serve our
users or (since we don't use it) our developers. All the arguments in
favor are either theoretical use cases, or are "wants" rather than
"needs". I think our users are better served by not tracking, and our
developers time is better spent not distracted by questions arising
from a shifting cultural landscape more focused on privacy.


> On 2018/11/02 20:54:59, Christopher <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > I think we should remove it. Given greater user concern over privacy
> > lately (with things like GDPR), and the fact that it we don't really
> > *need* the info (does anybody check the reports regularly?), I'd
> > prefer to just remove it. Infra was also discussing this:
> > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/1604a4cb92120eb5daab35aeaa9dda9aee461f8f644ab58ff0bc891a@%3Cusers.infra.apache.org%3E
> > and there seemed to be some wider community consensus in that thread
> > that we probably just shouldn't do it.
> > On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 3:25 PM Mike Walch <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > I created a pull request to remove Google Analytics tracking from the
> > > project website (https://accumulo.apache.org):
> > >
> > > https://github.com/apache/accumulo-website/pull/128
> > >
> > > If you think Google Analytics should remain, please reply to this email or
> > > comment on the pull request.
> >
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Re: Remove Google Analytics from project website

Mike Walch-2
In reply to this post by Sean Busbey-6
Google Analytics is great at measuring website visitors but I think it's
hard to determine what percentage of visitors are actually using Accumulo.
Most website visitors only want to learn what the project does.  I don't
find visitor metrics that useful.

I would be in favor of keeping Google Analytics if we were doing community
building via social media, developer websites, etc and wanted to measure
how much traffic the website gets from these efforts. However, I don't
think anyone is doing this and Google Analytics or something similar can
always be added back if someone wants to do this.

While I am in favor of removing it, I am OK keeping it if others find it
useful and the ASF doesn't recommend its removal. I'll keep the pull
request open until there is some consensus.

On Mon, Nov 5, 2018 at 9:48 AM Sean Busbey <[hidden email]> wrote:

> IIRC google analytics was one of the few ways Josh and I were able to look
> at the size of the "lurker population" for the project back when we tried
> to get a grasp on how the community was doing back in 2014.
>
> What will we do as an alternative for checking interest in the project
> expressed as website visits? When one of us wants to redesign or optimize
> parts of the website how will we know what works and what doesn't?
>
> I think GDPR is also a good reason to keep the existing analytics install.
> Any alternative we come up with will have to comply and I'm pretty sure the
> Google Analytics team is in a better position to do that then the Accumulo
> community is.
>
> On 2018/11/02 20:54:59, Christopher <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > I think we should remove it. Given greater user concern over privacy
> > lately (with things like GDPR), and the fact that it we don't really
> > *need* the info (does anybody check the reports regularly?), I'd
> > prefer to just remove it. Infra was also discussing this:
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/1604a4cb92120eb5daab35aeaa9dda9aee461f8f644ab58ff0bc891a@%3Cusers.infra.apache.org%3E
> > and there seemed to be some wider community consensus in that thread
> > that we probably just shouldn't do it.
> > On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 3:25 PM Mike Walch <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > I created a pull request to remove Google Analytics tracking from the
> > > project website (https://accumulo.apache.org):
> > >
> > > https://github.com/apache/accumulo-website/pull/128
> > >
> > > If you think Google Analytics should remain, please reply to this
> email or
> > > comment on the pull request.
> >
>
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Re: Remove Google Analytics from project website

Keith Turner
On Mon, Nov 5, 2018 at 12:57 PM Mike Walch <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Google Analytics is great at measuring website visitors but I think it's
> hard to determine what percentage of visitors are actually using Accumulo.
> Most website visitors only want to learn what the project does.  I don't
> find visitor metrics that useful.
>
> I would be in favor of keeping Google Analytics if we were doing community
> building via social media, developer websites, etc and wanted to measure
> how much traffic the website gets from these efforts. However, I don't
> think anyone is doing this and Google Analytics or something similar can
> always be added back if someone wants to do this.
>
> While I am in favor of removing it, I am OK keeping it if others find it
> useful and the ASF doesn't recommend its removal. I'll keep the pull
> request open until there is some consensus.

Personally I am in favor of removing it.  I am also ok with keeping it
around if Sean finds it useful.

>
> On Mon, Nov 5, 2018 at 9:48 AM Sean Busbey <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > IIRC google analytics was one of the few ways Josh and I were able to look
> > at the size of the "lurker population" for the project back when we tried
> > to get a grasp on how the community was doing back in 2014.
> >
> > What will we do as an alternative for checking interest in the project
> > expressed as website visits? When one of us wants to redesign or optimize
> > parts of the website how will we know what works and what doesn't?
> >
> > I think GDPR is also a good reason to keep the existing analytics install.
> > Any alternative we come up with will have to comply and I'm pretty sure the
> > Google Analytics team is in a better position to do that then the Accumulo
> > community is.
> >
> > On 2018/11/02 20:54:59, Christopher <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > I think we should remove it. Given greater user concern over privacy
> > > lately (with things like GDPR), and the fact that it we don't really
> > > *need* the info (does anybody check the reports regularly?), I'd
> > > prefer to just remove it. Infra was also discussing this:
> > >
> > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/1604a4cb92120eb5daab35aeaa9dda9aee461f8f644ab58ff0bc891a@%3Cusers.infra.apache.org%3E
> > > and there seemed to be some wider community consensus in that thread
> > > that we probably just shouldn't do it.
> > > On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 3:25 PM Mike Walch <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I created a pull request to remove Google Analytics tracking from the
> > > > project website (https://accumulo.apache.org):
> > > >
> > > > https://github.com/apache/accumulo-website/pull/128
> > > >
> > > > If you think Google Analytics should remain, please reply to this
> > email or
> > > > comment on the pull request.
> > >
> >